New Law Banning Lolicon?

I am a New Zealand woman living in Japan. I just read the article about the proposed banning of 'Lolicon'. This proposal is something strongly support and I want to know how I can get involved...
My only question is why the proposed age limit for children depicted is 13 and not higher....but I guess we have to start somewhere!! and its a good start!

Ganbate to everyone involved.

My only question is why the proposed age limit for children depicted is 13 and not higher....but I guess we have to start somewhere!! and its a good start!

As you may or may not know outlawing stuff has to start gradually. Also if you ban stuff on 13 year olds then the penalty between lolicon and real porn will be the same. Hence anyone who cant quit lolicon will start real porn further generating the child porn industry

Lolicon rules!! Banning lolicon is just stupid.

It is cartoon depictions of something that is illegal, but its just that. CARTOON!
The sexual attraction to young children is a curse, similar to that of having an attraction to the same sex. homosexuality is considered a globally accepted thing, why can't pedophilia be considered the same? I'll tell you why, because the only pedophiles you hear being talked about are ones that have gone out and raped young children. If you are under the impression all pedophiles rape children.. you're a fucking moron.
I am cursed with this sexual attraction to children. As the reason i enjoy lolicon so much, it is my release of sexual frustration i have for people that i definately should not be having. but ive tried many ways to fix this, none of them will ever work. so im stuck with it, i just go about it the legal way instead of subsiding to child pornography.. or NO pornography which is what probably LED those pedophiles you hear about on the news to be driven to raping children.
If lolicon is made illegal, then the legal way will turn illegal. so i may as well go for the real fucking thing. Thus furthering the popularity of child pornography.
Lolicon is legal for a reason. keep it that way.
Stevles

It is utterly absurd to impose a law banning a fictional depiction or narrative. If a child is fictional, the child's age is also fictional, and can be whatever the author or viewer wants it to be. To Susanna above: to state the obvious, it is impossible for the authorities to "know" if the age of a lolicon character is under 13, or whatever age they decide is legal! If I created a cartoon character that looked like a girl between 11 and 14, and put an erotic story about her next to an erotic image, would my creation be "child porn" if I said she was 12, but not if I said she was 13? See what I mean? Taking it even further, if I took an erotic image of a REAL 18 year old girl (perfectly legal) and labelled it with a false statement of age, say "Britney -- 16 years old", would THAT be child porn? By changing an 8 to a 6, have I just committed a serious felony? I'm trying to point out the big difference between real child porn, which harms real children, and virtual child porn (VCP), which exists purely in the realm of the imaginary and cannot be analyzed in a way that withstands logical scrutiny. For those people who feel that VCP is not very different from real child porn and that it must be banned to protect society, realize that VCP is an expression of thoughts (albeit not the healthiest of thoughts). There are competing arguments about whether VCP would cause pedophiles to abuse children more, or whether it would help satisfy their fantasies and actually reduce their likelihood of victimizing real children. There are a lot of other issues in society that can be debated as to how much harm they cause vs. how much harm would be caused by criminalizing them: recreational drug use, violent/sexually oriented video games, drinking, smoking, etc. Society could try to protect itself from everything harmful, but then we'd all live in a society where the slightest misstep could lead to our banishment, the ultimate Orwellian society.

By the way, I do not collect lolicon, although I would not consider the few images I've seen offensive in any way. They're kind of cute, with a sense of "forbidden fruit"--you cannot go into that territory in real life. Like most people, I could not imagine looking at images of real children being abused. I have argued for the legality of VCP from a logical and intellectual point of view, not a moral one, and certainly not one from a pedophile's point of view.

"Your Honor, I swear the cartoon character told me she was 18!"

So drawing illegal acts is becoming an illegal act in itself...

Just think about that for a minute.

I think we should lock up every artist in the world right now who has ever drawn a rapescene, a murder, a burglary, acts of extortion, deathcamps, jaywalking, loitering, robbing, or anything else that is illegal.

While were at it, lets put the viewers of these drawings in jail too.

And why stop there? Those damn novelists have been contaminating our perfect society for centuries. Throw them in jail too! And their readers...

I hope the lady from new zealand who posted above, who is dying to fight for her cause, has a lot of time on her hands because she will be busy in the future.

is lolicon banned in england i must know before the old bill smash down me door lol

First of all I'm not really a fan of under 13 lolicon, that is too young for my tastes. But I do have some views on this. also when I say lolicon here I mean the stuff that is completely fake, not based on any real person or models used.

protecting children is very important, but i don't believe banning lolicon will fix that. Some people may use lolicon and won't ever go out and actually view child porn, or commit underage abuse. The lolicon is seen as their release and it will help keep them on the legal side of the law where no victims will get hurt.

However others use lolicon to build up towards actual child porn and child abuse. The same material can be used to keep you from commiting a crime against children and be used to help build up to you doing the same. Therefore I think that while lolicon should not be illegal but it should be able to be used in cases against those who have commited crimes. Those who use it however may have something put on their record to prevent them from some jobs (teachers, sports team managers, etc). While this information would be accessible by some organizations that deal with children it would not be accessible by regular organizations.

For example a man is found with a large collection of lolicon and child pornography. He will be charged for both and his sentance would be greater than if it was just child porn. It may also be then decided by the people in charge of the sentancing and rehabilitation as to weather this man would be banned from accessing and using lolicon from then on.

While a man may be charged in this case he could not be charged if the pornography he had was legal, Or if his crime was unrelated. for example a bank robber having lolicon would not be charged for the lolicon. But if they where found with lolicon they would not be able to apply for jobs where they would be working with children.

Well i think it can be considered as three things:

Depictions of younger beings engaged in sex/riskee/perverted (but not sexually explicit)
can be
1:) One who likes lolicon because of the general appearance of the character may be interested in it.

2.) A former Child molester/Rapist/Stalker or even someone who has NEVER committed crimes against child/childlike character | may have found a safe/personal alternative to actual Child-p0rn/Actual children
------ meaning they have found someway to reduce/eliminate their urges/impulses or whatever

3.) Someone who has indeed had experiences in the past as a child
(not necessarily having been raped/molested) maybe even had explored with a childhood friend
has found an attraction to the state of mind/body of a person when he/she was younger

REMEMBER take into account both sides of the pros and cons
think of how others might be helped even though you may not agree with what has been changed/allowed

You pedophiles totally crack me up with your silly little ideas about how lolicon is somehow acceptable.

The only reason that the Japanese government hasn't outlawed it yet is because evrybody over there is sick. Practically every manga involves a naive young girl being taken advantage of. Not nessesarily raped, but taken advantage of.

I swear, that country's government is full of pedophiles. Just wait until a decent, sane man gets in power.

He'll ban lolicon and save the internet!!!

A word of advice to the above poster (the one who wrote "FUCK YOU" as his subject header.

Lolicon is banned.

Saying that you look at a lot of it could get you in trouble. Saying that you "have yet" to touch a young girl makes it seem like you're planning on doing so in the future.

Bit silly really...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

STUPID LOLIPHILES GOT OWNED!

Come now. Why don't you all just try and SUPRESS those violent child rape-related urges.

Maybe all of your pent up masochisticness will come out in other, more worthwhile ways.

Have Meeps' ingenious comments made it clear yet, people? It's not that Japanese people are more open about sexual fantasies in their artistic mediums; they're just SICK, SICK, SICK. And WRONG. And EVIL and SICK and DEPRAVED and UNHOLY. Also, SICK and WRONG.

...Sarcasm mode off. Congratulations, Meeps, on not only completely misinterpreting many of the arguments here (if you've even read them), but on approaching the issue without the immoral handicap of an open mind. =_=

Apparently the concept of freedom means nothing to some people unless it conforms to their own personal ideals and values (i.e. everything they agree with is just hunky-dory, but everything they don't agree with should be censored). And why is everyone who disagrees with the banning of lolicon suddenly a pedophile?

Honestly, give us intelligent arguments to back up your points, or quit wasting our time.

Is the Simpson porn illegal now?

It should be.

BURN ALL LOLIPHILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Yeah, guess what peoples... I myself am underage(12) and I already know about this animated child porn crap. when I first found out it was by accident. I went to a forum and heard all these old men and sick teens talking about how "sexy" lolicons were...I had absolutly no clue as to what a lolicon was so I asked. they told me it was underage animated children(1-16). My first fealings were fear then anger. How do you think I felt hearing adaults and teens, the people I look up to, talk about how "sexy" these animated children were.(I dont care if their animated or not its still children.) arent I supposed to look up to you guys? well, nope. not after the new mental scars you gave me.(I saw some of your little pictures there)

Ive already found it. Imagine if your kids found child porn (of any sort) with you or on your computer. What would your kids think of you emptying your pipes to a picture of a child their age or if not close?(animated or not) Do you think children(me) would approve of you beating off to them? if most adaults dont approve of it, what makes you think I will?

If lolicon was banned, more than half the hentai on the internet would be banned.
(Disclamer: 75% of statistics are made up, but you get the point on how far reaching this would end up being...)

Come on you guys. This woman just wants to know how she can get involved. Im pretty sure she doesnt want to get attacked, she just needs some information. If you dont have this information then you should probably get back to what you were doing instead of telling her how much you hate her or how stupid she is or just giving her any kind of hate. She just wants to know how she can support this and most of you should just leave it at that if you dont have an answer.

.... Way to make me look stupid because I dont have an answer either. If I did then I would give it to her wether I supported the "cause" or not, just to be respectful.

Yes 13 years is a start, but why stop at this? Next we should move on to banning all those sinful and disgusting images of human beings being murdered on screen which obviously hold a negative impact on our society and must be removed at all costs before they encourage more of the real thing!
All you producers and viewers of so called "action" films such as the wretched 'Ghost Rider' should be given the death penalty for your atrocious thought crimes and obvious enjoyment in this behavior which sickens me to the highest degree.

(comment written with subtle hint of sarcasm)

I've been married to a mentally challenged woman for the past 12 years, her parents approved our marriage. You peeps out there bitching and moaning about girls being taken advantage of are pretty simple-minded yourselves. I have sex with my wife on a regular business and people don't come hammering down on my door for it.. If you haven't figured out what I'm getting at yet you need to go shoot yourself in the head. I'm talking about her mind, yes her mind is that of a 11 year old and her body of a 30 year old's. Everyone knows that in the past marriage/sex, "underage" as our society calls it, was common to happen between the ages of 10-15.. So FUCK YOU and your society of ignorant and predjudice people. I love my wife and will always stay with her. When there is a man who loves a "girl" you say he takes advantage of her.. really? So you mean to tell me that women in the world haven't been taken advantage of?.. wow.. such a perfect fucking world and I didn't even realize it. I'm not even talking about underage, I'm talking about grown women. "They're innocent!" that's your perspective, everyone has their own way to define "inappropriate age", according to psychologist studies: EVERYONE thinks of committing a violent thought at least 1% in a day.. count the minutes in a day and do the math how long 1% is and the very fact that I'm talking about what you would call a Normal person. Amazing really.. The age limit should be set according to a mental test if you really believe that there should be a law for it, otherwise if you bitch and moan for a law to be set in place, all the 'pedophiles' out there can simply see the green-eyed monster coming out of you. Yes, I'm talking about there's those of you out there that keep denying that you would never attempt something so "criminal" to a young lady, but in fact we can see it, and hear it in your voice.. You're simple-minded and scared to voice who you really are.. Well good night folks.. hmm for those wondering who I am I work in a library, and I do appreciate a young lady's body, but I never act on my impulse. Take this into consideration.

What is the above poster trying to say?

This ban on lolicon must be the most absurd thing I've heard of in a long time. I am a long standing participant in several, if not hundreds of anime-manga communities as are many of my friends. Not that I condone child pornography, but in seriousness many of the arists that draw the images are only depicting what they're culture has been doing for a long time. Whether a grown man or even a child decides to use it for a different purpose is their own doing. This is also theoretical of course, if the ban wasn't a blatant trampling of a person's freedom rights. To put it into perspective, thousands of people in the world have the physical ability and intention of shooting someone. Would you ban guns to stop this? And would you also ban the materials to make a gun?

If you disagree with me, drop me a line at max_master48@yahoo.com

Oh my god you people are so fucking retarded... I'm guessing that NO ONE read what Gentalmen said... SHE FUCKING WANTS ADVISE. If you DONT have it then stop bitching and find something better to do..

This discussion is getting out of hand. First of all, it takes a lot of balls to say 'fuck you' to someone on the internet, doesn't it? Seriously, all this lady wanted was some info, she didn't want people to start tearing her a new one.

Second of all, no matter how much I personally don't agree with it, I can see the point that has been made. In the eyes of some people, lolicon porn could be harmful to society, perhaps giving a few people some very wrong ideas. If there is even a chance that a child may be victimized as a result, don't you think we should take every precaution to ensure that never happens?

As a tertairy point, we are talking about JAPAN! So unless you are a citizen/resident of that country, this discussion doesn't concern you even in the least. Now let's see, who in this thread is actually living in Japan... hmmm... oh that's right, SUSANNA! So if you don't have anything helpful to say, piss off!

That being said, admitedly, I enjoy the occational lolicon myself. I am also sick and twisted. I'm obsessive compulsive, a drunk, a stoner, I don't have a job, and I regularly engage in sexual activities with women MY OWN AGE (18+)! What can I say? I'm a loser. However, if given the chance, I would personally rid the world of every last bit of lolicon porn without a second thought if it would keep even one innocent child out of harms way.

Thank you for listening.

(BTW, "loliphiles?" HA! Fucking hilarious! I'm totally adding that to urban dictionary!)

Yes, let's not get too out of line here...

Oh I loooove Lolicon!!! but I would neeeeeever touch a little girl! I just like to watch them get raped!^_^ Im sooo uber against pedophilia but infants with strap on dildos being raped in the butt is hooot! (sarcasm)

Did you freaks ever stop to think that the reason your "girlfriend" is your left hand and your "wife" is your right hand is because you like to get your jollies off to sea creatures and infants?

Oh sure, you say your not like an otaku. You say you have a life and you have a girlfriend. *pshh*

Find something better to do other than beat your tiny meat to children, how about you go out to find (oh no!! you have to interact with real humans!!!) one of those things you've been missing for so many years living in your moms basement, what was it called? Oh yeah, A LIFE...

Okay, I'm 15. And I do not think it should be banned. I was sexually abused when I was 4. What if my abuser had looked at lolicon? Maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to molest me.

Plus, it's FAKE!! It's not real!!

As the president of America, I feel that I should explain to you lowly commoners just why lolicon hasn't been banned yet.

It's simple really: Lolicon exists for the good of America. Without lolicon, America would simply cease to function.

You see, our entire society of America is built around internet nerds without girlfriends or social lives. These hardworking Americans turn to lolicon in order to fill their free time.

Without lolicon, they would have nothing to do and they would realise how pointless their existances are. After this, they would commit American suicide by drowning themselves in one of America's many rivers.

This would be a huge problem for America, as well as America's stockmarkets and America's internet. And this would affect everyone in America. Every American citizen would suffer for it.

Yes. Lolicon helps to keep America powerful... It holds together the fabric of American society... It is a staple of our everlasting American greatness...

Plus I fap to it... In America...

Thats bullshit... Please dear lord, let these geeks get some fucking fresh air. If I had a nickle for every time I heard "OHEMGEEZ! ITS JUST A PICTURE!" I would be the richest son-of-a-bitch this world has ever known. HAHA, don't worry kids, the LAPD is working on it. Video, photograph, painting, sketching, who the fuck cares, they all advocate the same thing, they all have the same meaning, they all have the same intintions, which is fucking a child. Drawing or not. It's a image depicting raping a child. Where is the good in that? This country is losing all its morals. You little pussies need to go outside, get a tan, get a girlfriend, and just all over get a life. Who the fuck cares if its not real, its an image of some guy fucking a little girl!!!!... I've never been so ashamed of my country in my life. The worst people are the people who try to make it sound like Lolicon bullshit "saves lives". BULLSHIT. Why the hell do you think these people will be satisfied with ONLY masterbating their whole life? Hell, I hate masterbating. You think a man can masterbate his whole life? bullshit. He's gonna have to get laid some time. Stop fucking trying to justify Lolicon, it can't be justified. It has no morals. It never will.

.... Nuf said

I take it your..... 48 years old, 320lbs, and live in your moms bacement?

.. Oh, wait. Don't answer that.

Lots of anime now days is losing its artistic value. Thats why very few earn my respect.

Yeah, like I said before (remember me? "BTW, "loliphiles?" HA! Fucking hilarious! I'm totally adding that to urban dictionary!".... You remember!), if there is even the remotest chance someone may be victimized because of lolicon, then there is every reason to ban it. Hell, since my first post, I'VE stopped... so you know it's not that hard. Also, considering it's summer in America, I got a tan, too. Still no girlfriend, though. Two out of three ain't bad, though, right?

I hate when some dork goes on another web-site and says "I don't understand why I don't have a girlfriend?". Uhhh, maybe the reason your 'girl' friend is your left hand and your wife is your right hand is because you like to get your jollies off to tentacles and children.

Oh, and stuff like anime and manga isn't realy a 'culture', its just a fucked up form of porn for fucked up people. Thats like saying that Jerry Springer is a part of America's 'culture'. It's not, that makes America sound like its ONLY full of white trash and tranzvestites.

I am Cernal Mustard!!! Who killed me!!! Was it Mrs.Peacock?!!!

A lot of people think anime's about child pornography. That's not true at all. It's also about dog sex, tentacle rape, inflatable breasts, mommy-daughter fingering, and maid fetishes.

"Hentai" is Japanese for 'I'm a sorry, sick ass fuck and the image of 2D characters gyrating on my dick makes me hard.' Now I understand that as human beings, we've got urges; and I'm not some lame anti-porno Bible thumper, but I am simply not seeing this 2D porno thing. I mean, when watching The Little Mermaid, did you ever feel the need to screw her with the little crab thing? Or when watching Futurama, did you ever stop to think, "Hey, I wonder how that one eyed chick would look with tentacles in her mouth?" No, I didn't think so, but anime freaks seem to think this is perfectly natural evolution for cartoons. 'I watch cartoons, therefore I would like to see cartoon characters shoving kitchen utensils up each other's orifices.'

One rather disturbing trend in this anime porn crap is to showcase quite young individuals. Now, hentai ninjas defend this sickening theme by saying that because they're cartoons, they have no age. Excuse me, what? Does that mean that drawings of infants wearing strap-on dildos is acceptable behavior? Next, these cartoon wanking freaks might argue that the age of consent is 13 in Japan. Hey shithead, are you Japanese? No? Then shut the fuck up. And even if you were, that doesn't mean it's any less sick and reprehensible. In a last spasm of defense, they even use crap like, "Well, uh, would you rather pedophiles were viewing real child porn or cartoons?" Uh, what? Is that anything like saying, "Would you rather be poor and happy or rich and unhappy?" How about rich AND happy? How about pedophiles not look at real child porn OR cartoon porn? That would be none of the fucking above, Bob.

Then, we got this tentacle crap. Please, somebody explain this shit to me. There are a lot of people completely screwed in the head, but come on -- when I think of squids and octopuses (that Octopussy chick in the James Bond flick aside), about the last thing I am looking for is my tube of K-Y. What next, jellyfish sex? Anemone and lobster threesomes? alt.sex.fetish.suction-cups? Seriously, get a fuckin' life.

Oh, I think it waaaas...hmmm, Cernal Mustard killed himself!!!!!!

Those last five posts were all by the same person weren't they?

And also...

DEATH TO THE LOLICON SCOURGE!!!!!!!

KILL ALL LOLIPHILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Hmm this is like the most active article on the site...but let's keep the conversation somewhat "intelligent" and not start a loli-crusade ^^;

Jesus... there really is no grey area with you people. It's eaither 'KILL ALL LOLIPHILES' or 'KILL ALL NON-LOLIPHILES!'

Get a fucking life and GTFO!

yeah go ahead ban it? now go ban some other stuff like Movie and TV shows that show other kinds of In-human things happening. not enough? right move on to REAL porn and ban that. keep going and youll fail in the long run.

banning something dose not stop it.

stopping access to something just makes people want it more. anyway, were talking about FICTONAL people in a FICTONAL world. WHO THE FUCK IS GETTING HURT BY THAT????? NO-ONE!

now go home and DO something more important like improving the legal system on Game rating that have been CRAP within the last few years. like "oh ill buy this computer game for my kid whos 9, and its got a 18 rated Age on it" 3 weeks later "OH NO! my kid has stabed someone, BLAME THE GAME" NO BITCH, blame yourself for buying it in the first place.

BAH

/rant over

have fun
Everian Out

Alright, many of you are acting absolutely ridiculous about this whole deal. Lolicon doesn't even involve real children, and as such shouldn't be banned. I mean, come on! They're just drawings of fictional characters! Wtf is the big deal?!

I do enjoy looking at lolicon, but rest assured I'm in no way attracted to irl young girls, nor would I so much as even touch them.

Now stop overreacting. It's not real. Get over it.

because all of you swear so much...

^Hardly a valid argument, there. Come back when you've got a decent one.

You know, I return to this particular thread every couple of weeks, and every time I do, I find out that humanity is in a slow spiral.

On one end of the spectrum, you have the "LOL IT'S JUST PICTURE DRAWINGS LAWL FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!"

And on the other side you have the "PEDOPHILES! YOU'RE ALL GODDAMN PEDOPHILES!"

While both sides have valid points, neither have made an inteligent (?), let alone convincing, argument. So anyone else has something to say, remember this:

It's all been said before, so don't bother.

Now, for the love of Gawd, somebody fucking sage this shit so we can move on. lol

Japan? Ban loli? They'd ban mecha before that happened! If it ever managed to pass, smoke if you got'em cuz the world is going to end and no one here's going on the rapture ride up.

Also true paedophiles just don't do loli. They just don't, because it's an obsession. If you're an alcoholic do you drink Stroh's or O'douls in between, or do you save that money for the shittiest boxed wine you can find? Yeah, that's right, you want the real thing, not some fake crappy drawings of kids all shaped alike with different heads. That's also why they go gaga for nudist picture books and 'classical' paintings.

And to the morally deficient deputy, send whatever you can muster. LAPD is so weak and pitiful they can't even beat up some lazy sombrero-wearing low-riding gangers. Officers, SWAT, sharpshooters, I'll take them all down. Nothing gets between this Landsknecht and his Tokyo Mew Mew, hahahha! I'll blow you from the water before you can even land, don't spread your filthy perfidious Protestant fears and myths to enlightened peoples! LEAVE YOUR INSECURITIES IN YOUR INSECURE LITTLE COUNTRY WITH ITS INSECURE LITTLE COCK AND GAY AIDS-INFESTED BUTT GROPING SPORTS

LISTEN!

I don't care of other peoples veiws on this section, I just want to know why you all are still fighting about this?! It has already been settled, lolicon is banned, but you can still find it as long as there are free forum makers!

All of you dumb-assed, basement dwelling, bottom-feeding pedophiliacs out there read this:

"IT IS NOT ILLEAGAL UNLESS YOU GET CAUGHT!"

Yeah, sure, you get you're jolly off of acouple of cartoons, so do me and my wife! But I don't parade all over hell and creation yelling about how they are going to try to rid the (very vast) internet of the loli-generation. Oh-no, they are going to ban it o.o;; BAH! I would love them try to come onto my property and take it away! And you know why they can't?! IT IS CALLED TRESSPASSING BITCH! Yeah, I have something I like to call constitutional rights! The right to own property, and since the images are already on my computer, they can't do SHIT! So all you little perverts reading this, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

And now we move on to the

Anti-perverts

YOU ALL ARE JUST FUCKING RETARDS IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY THINK YOU CAN GET RID OF A TREND SO EASILY! If that was the case, I would have ridded the world of ANYTHING Cartoon Network played during the hours between 6 a.m.-10 p.m.

Here is a little something you can read as well:

"FUCK OFF!"

All I see in you hipocritse are people that go around, picking up trash, hugging grass and sucking God's dick! You are the people that just make me sick! And there are three reasons why:

1. You beleive in things that don't exsist, Ghosts, God, Hope, ect.

2. You try and try to take away things that make the world better

3. You say things that don't make sense. What do you say you ask? "I want to make my self look better, so I'll loose/gain weight" GODDAMNIT! Yeah, that is exsactly what the world needs, more fat people, or worse, more skelitons

I just wish people could see the world the way I do! How is that you ask? I'll tell you! STOP CARING ABOUT THINGS! I have not care about a thing since I was eight. At twelve, my mother died and I laughed. Why? because someone asked me if I had a soul. I don't see what the big deal about caring if it is bite you back in the ass and haunt you for the rest of your life!

So leave each other alone, go back to jacking off or praying or something because it doesn't matter if the lolicon is banned, it will always be veiwed on your own property

~Foamy

The photo at the TOP of page with the two girls and the red X on it. The characters are Len(??????) and White Len(?????????).
Actually they are 900 year old Sorceress with split personality disorder. Aside from that the game they are depicted in, in that photo is a doujin(amateur) fighting game names Melty Blood(Japan's #1 Arcade Game at the moment), based off TYPE-MOON's hit Text based porn game Tsukihime(Moon Princess) for PC. In the game, which I own, there is no depiction of either character in sexual acts. I hate when web-sites drown in their ignorance.
The homepage for the game is http://e56.info/mbac/

Rather than going after cartoon child porn, much more time should be spent going after the real thing. We're a step away from book burnings by banning lolicon. Unless explicitly stated, who's to say how old the subject of the artwork really is? Are we assuming that everyone 18 and older has the same cartoon physique? It's just stupid. More offensive to me than lolicon are the fashions being embraced by young girls these days, why isn't anything being done to stop 12yr old girls from wearing miniskirts with visible midriff and cute (aka sexual) reference logos and whatnot? Is it that we're not quite to the point of enforcing national dress codes yet? If we are prepared to outlaw certain artwork why not certain fashion?

I like anime & manga for the artwork, and although I'm not really into loli, when I come across it I don't mind watching it. Banning it would be stupid. There'd be no end to the things we would have to ban from our society. Already, alot of single adult males fear little children. Being one of them, I try to stay away from kids as far as I can. It's too easy these days to be labelled a pedophile. If I ever get kids, I want only sons. Not for fear of pedophiles, but for what other people might think of me and my daughter playing.

Most of the posts here are not worth reading. All you guys like to do is hearing yourselves talk. You all who continue to talk in circles and curse, probably think you sound like such "responsible adults" by using such profanity. What it really does to your arguments is to weaken them. Why would I want to understand someone who can't find a better word to say? And don't spout nonsense that "I was top of my debating class" or something, because you just earned an "F" in practical/everyday use in the skill.

Now on topic, I doubt any of you actually draw for a living or at least taken an drawing/painting art class. If you had, you would probably know where I am going.

If you want to get better at art, you must practice everyday. You might not have models who would have the time to model for you at a short times notice. So, you would most likely reference previous gesture drawings and sessions. Base your drawing on a little of this and a little of that and presto! You got your "original" drawing.

What I am saying is that everything is based on something. At some point in time, artists must use real life to make their drawings more believable. How they use that knowledge is up to them...

On another point, most of you complain that banning such entertainment is like banning everything else that is related or nearly related. There is a difference in knowledge and entertainment. There is a difference in representing something that must be known and bad taste. I am definitely for banning such material for entertainment purposes. It also depends on how that work is shown. Paintings from around World War 2 and the Holocaust would be a good example. Tell me your reaction if the paintings were hung in, say, the Holocaust Memorial Center in USA, Michigan vs a private collection of Nazi sympathizers.

My final point is, yes, actually banning the material will not stop the want for this sort of entertainment. It would most likely aggravate the problem. If there's a will, there's always a way. I just can't understand why or how people can justify thinking that animated or drawn child porn is different from the real thing. Would they still be interested in it if the children were adults instead (in exactly the same situations)? The answer of that person will determine their intent and nature. So that is the question to ask to lolicon/shotacon supporters...

Of course, this comment is either going to be absolutely ignored or flamed by trolls. No matter as long as I put in my two cents and have it recorded here...

the thing u have to see is lolicon is not real and iv seen it said a thousand times "so what if its not real it still child porn". no its not its just a drawing i draw for a liveing and i can tell u if i ever go to court for anything i draw(no i dont draw lolicon)the first thing im going to do is ask for a sheet of paper and draw a picture of a scene from a horror movie and then ask if im going to be charged with murder. and when they say no i will say thats my point its FICTONAL its not real i dont care what u say like "o this lolicon will make u want to rape little kids"no if they want to rape little kids i can tell u one thing seeing some drawing didnt make them want to do it. i do look at lolicon and hentai and all the things u people say is evil, wrong or not right but i think that its the viewer who decides what to do with the picture.an if they ban this the next thing is all drawings of anything not moral or right and then say goodbye to all action movies where anyone is shot or killed and horror movies all together because u cant have any fictonal monster killing anyone because that could make someone want to kill people. the fact is the fictonal world is just that fictonal its not real its not ever going to be real and there is nothing wrong with just a picture. PS.what the fuck is with all the" OMG UBER WTF GAWD LOLZ " i happen to be very otaku and i dont talk like that dont be fucking stereotypical to anyone who likes anime/games/manga we are just like anyone else just with a different hobby

lolicon (and by association all forms of paedophilia) is the big target of media and government at the moment (like video games were a few years back). i can not believe that anyone can be so close-minded about a subject like this. according to my biology teacher (i am still 15 though i doubt any will believe that after the shit i have read so far) scientists are actively trying to prove being gay is genetic. gay is a sexual preference (everyone has one either willfully or not) and so is lolicon. but while gay rights are being stressed heavily lolicon rights are being supressed. but lolicon itself has such feeble defenses its pathetic. no one dares speak up publicly about it. that would destroy what little life they have and they would be subjected to shit treatment and house searches everytime a child came home five minutes late.

many forms of lolicon are rape, of which i am not a fan, and those kinds are often brutal beyond comprehension. this is the kind everyone sees. brutal raping of children is a horrible thing that puts the rest down. other forms of lolicon include but are not limited too tentacle(which i dont quite understand but i am not one to judge), sexual scenes between many of the same age(many scenes often happen in real life), and a person of older age being sexual touched by a younger aged person against thier will, some will say this kind condones the excuse that the child wanted it (which is used frequently for some reason), but it also says that children many times will have sexual encounters with adults by thier own free will.

also i ask how do you really know that the child in the picture is under age. besides the few that are glaringly obvious there really isnt any way to tell. one might say breast size, but there are many adult women with a flat chest. another would say size but are there not small adults, short people, those with smaller bone structure. yet at the same time there are large structured children who look older than they are, those girls who are "well-endowed" at a young age.

they say history repeats itself so lets use some history now. i think alcohol and lolicon are close enough, hated by all who dont use it and some who do and is often an addiction many wish to break but never can. Years ago ( i think it was like 80 or something) in America they passed a law banning alcohol. adn what was the alcoholic solution? making thier own and lash out in riots until it was repealed. though there will be no public riots for this and it will probably never be repealed many solutions will be the same. and for those who are not artistic enough to make their own lolicon and not smart or sneaky enough to find other people's they will be forced to find a real life equivilant leading to a higher increase of child rape. in an attempt to lower it they actually increased it. irony, huh.

Personally though as a fan of lolicon I prefer girls my own age(though being 15 that means they are between 13 and 17). A person told me once that i am not a lolicon person just a fan of girls my own age. but i can still imagine myself looking at it in twenty years (though it will most likely be banned by then).

One other problem with this arguement is that its hard for outsiders (those not of the preference) to differeniate between lolicon and child molestation. best way too put it is with something i heard from a Carlos Mencia. 'The last things Mexicans want is terrorists crossing into America through Mexico cause thats when we will seal the border up." The last things lolicon fnas want is for a guy to go and rape a little girl because then they have there stuff being cracked down on. Everytime i see a rapist on tv say (and it aint true its just a way to get less blame on them and distract from the problem) that they were encouraged by lolicon stuff i want to kick their selfish ass.

an old proverb (i belive it was English) says "Call a man a thief, and he will steal." Call people rapists and they will rape. So pass your laws and talk your shit. I will move on and laugh when in twenty years public pools are banned for being to "sexually provoking."

twenty bucks says someone just responds by saying (excuse my language but) FUCKING PEDOHPILE or some longer or smarter sounding version

forgot to add this but many government people say this is because society has to protect children. but did not when they were younger and many other generations of children dating back 1000s of years not have any protection. were it not but 10 years ago was it allowed for the school to "dicipline" a student with consent from the parent. and yet all these children turned out fine. i think that we protect kids too much. as time goes on more focus goes into protecting children and crime rates soar to a new high. am i the only one who makes the connection here. kids used to be put outside, locked out, and disappear all day and nobody saw a problem, it was actually expected. my friend used to be put outside and his mom would yell at him, "dont go getting yourself killed or thats just one less mouth for me to feed."

what i guess i am really trying to say is while its wrong to do it the blame isnt always (though many times it is) with the adult but is often cause the kid was too stupid to prevent it (or was trying to rebel against the parents by doing this) or was too protected to know it was waiting for them

this one will add his voice to this war.

look at this from the point of view of the person with the lolita fetish in countries where it is forbidden. we have certain attractions to children from the age of 8 on, sometimes younger, sometimes older. we have them. we are told growing up in society that this is sick, twisted, illegal, immoral. we see the consequences of this. of pedophiles (those who have done this), of those caught with pornographic materials of children whether picture or movie. prison, life ruined (social and family. they hate us) stripped of all rights and priveledges, even from swimming or public areas, mandatory curfew. but we have these urges still. we cannot reveal ourselves without destroying our lives. Some of us actually have children, neices, nephews, cousins, grandchildren, friends of the family with children, etcetera.

we are told growing up in society that this is sick, twisted, illegal, immoral. we are also though exposed to it in our lives. cupid, roman god of erotic love and sex is a child, we see him naked, we can even see his penis. shakespeare books and movies. there is a novel about a totally sex and nudity ordered society that came after an atomic war. they worshiped a ford. there is the sistine chapel ceiling. then there is the fact that not too long ago 10 - 15 was the age someone was married and had sex. there are many more examples through the pages of history all protected from law. and this is just in the US and Canada.

there is an underground but that cannot be entirely trusted. we can control our urges by masturbating to these anime, virtual images, manga, eroge games. we seek it out to calm our need but we live in fear that someone will find out and destroy our lives. even though most of us would never hurt a child.

If all of us stood up as one we may be able to get results but we cannot risk it.

Now the view of the outsider. Sick, evil, we must protect the children/our children from these people at all costs. Sure, most of them have never harmed a child but they will if given a chance. We will/can scare and beat this fetish out of them. We'll destroy everything needed for this fetish to grow that is within the realm of possibility. We will make the charges so harsh for anyone caught with so much as a picture of a naked child or one in underwear that we will crush this fetish into the dust. we'll destroy their social and family life we ever find one. then throw them in jail to rot if we can.

they did this to homosexuals and transexuals a while back. in fact it is still going on. still being a big deal. people still are in the closet about it because of what people will do or think.

lolicon, virtual/anime images, eroge, games is a way for those with this fetish to have it, to satisfy it, control it without it going too far. sometimes if you find a woman a bit on the small size you might get to act it out. it is the same for all fetishes.
there are rape fetishes, there are virtual rapes, virtual rape games and images. are these not just as dangerous and harmful?
slave training, owning, bondage & discipline, sadism & machoism, furries, animals, and much more.
the righteous fire does not seem turned against them to this extent.

you are attacking the people of the lolicon fetish because you do not share it and because you do not understand it. because you will not understand and refuse to you fear it and your fear makes you destroy lives that are blameless. some attack it because they are disgusted that they share it to some extent and hate themselves for it and so hate everyone else with it.

limit your attacks to those who actually commit the crime of sexually assaulting a child, do not attack the lolicon fetish itself. just as you have done so with the rape fetish and who knows how many others.

periel

I like anime & manga for the artwork, and although I'm not really into loli, when I come across it I don't mind watching it. Banning it would be stupid. There'd be no end to the things we would have to ban from our society. Already, alot of single adult males fear little children. Being one of them, I try to stay away from kids as far as I can. It's too easy these days to be labelled a pedophile. If I ever get kids, I want only sons. Not for fear of pedophiles, but for what other people might think of me and my daughter playing. drug free rehab

How do you evaluate how old a virtual girl is? It doesn't make sense. There are plenty of real women who look underage, but aren't. If we start banning virtual images it will create a precendence that will effect our freedoms.

Example; if we ban explicit images of virtual girls that "appear" underage for the arguement that it promotes actual crime, then the same arguement would apply to people who enjoy having their wives shave and dress up in their old cheerleading outfit.

What if this wife, dressed the way she is, looks 15? I am sure many grown women can look 15. Are we going to ban sex with young looking mature women because it might promote leud acts with actual minors?

So why don't we just ban murder in movies because it might make people kill?

It's absurd. Virtual pedophilia will never be banned in the US because our system of law tries to see past the emotions and see the real logic.

And in the US make believe is just that-make believe. If you are offended by it, just do what people in the US do when something offends them. Just don't look at it.

Why would anyone ban a manga picture? You have to ban hentai first but not even that. This is someone's work and it is art!

no matter what, it's wrong. it's not natural. let japan keep it's traditions. i'm against.

How pointless. I personally like Anime Lolicon and I honestly do not see the point in banning it. With a drawing you can make whatever you want out of it and its just a way of making Japanese Anime girls look cuter. Getting banned is just pointless and ridiculous, banning the 'real' thing yes I can deffinetly understand because that is just discusting and sickening, but banning drawings is just stupid. Nobody is getting hurt or abused in the pictures and its not really offending children, I mean What sort of Child is going to go looking at this stuff anyway!?!?

So instead of trying to make Anime pictures illegal and ban them from this whole country, why not go after the Guys that are doing all this kind of crap with Real children and people downloading real images of child abuse.

STOP WASTING TIME TRYING TO BAN FRIGGIN' CARTOON IMAGES WHEN THEIR ARE REAL CHILD ABUSERS AND RAPISTS OUT THERE ON THE LOOSE OFFENDING REAL CHILDREN!!

Honestly... why are we worried about banning anime pictures of kids? They're simply drawings. It's not like they're pictures of REAL children experimenting with each other or with adults or being raped and so on. It's just a damn drawing. How about instead of complaining about how offensive these drawings are... just don't look at them? I've just recently turned 18 and uh... seriously... there's really nothing wrong with lolicon and shotacon imo. I look at lolicon and I thought the love story behind the shota "Boku no Pico" was quite cute. I have a little brother and he even has friends come over quite often, but am I going to try to molest them? Hell no. There's a big difference between anime children and real children. Let's see, what are real children made out of? Flesh and blood. And what of anime children? Ink and paper. There is no problem with it. Oh wow... some dirty old men jerk off to it... who cares? As long as they're in their own company masturbating and not off touching little boys and girls then leave them be. As I said, even I like lolicon and sometimes a little shota, but I'm technically a "kid" still. I would never even think of sexually abusing a real child or even looking at a real child in a sexual manner. Instead of banning lolicon and shotacon how about you go out and find the real pedophiles and child molesters who are actually hurting real little kids. I enjoy loli, shota, and other hentai on my own time, not in the presence of kids, so there! The kids in my town don't see it from me! Think I'm done ranting for now. I'm gonna go be my geeky, loner, jerking-off self and play some World of Warcraft. Good day (or what have you) loli/shota-lovers and haters alike.

Ok, offcourse I'm not for child porn. But banning lolicon is just stupid. I mean the anime's aren't the cause for people doing things too minors. They think of that themselves. I like lolicon too, cuz it looks cute. But you don't see me molesting my little sister..

It's good there is a law againt pedophiles, but against lolicon is stupid.

What a heated debate over a simple question. Depictions, artistic representations.... do you hear yourselves? Next you will be saying thoughts should be banned, or having children outside their homes should be banned. Honestly cartoons are the least of peoples' worries. If I had a nickel for all the times I have seen little (6-10 year old) girls with something written on the tushie of of thier pants (ie: hottie, flirt, etc) or the sale of toddler bikinis because parents think its "cute", I would be wealthy and my point would be made. Concentrate on the exploitation of actual children first, look at the trends in this country, Brittney Spears;jailbait, popular until she was legal, Olsen Twins; same, Hannah Montana: soon to be same. This country (US) is obsessed with under age girls in the "acceptable" media, young girls (12-16 year olds) are commonly used to model very sexual fashions and frequently sexualized by mainstream culture. This cartoon thing is a red herring really, so much of US economy depends on these "forbidden fruits", I can't imagine how bad it would hurt the economy if we started using women who looked of age to model; women might start feeling better and not strive to look thirteen through cosmetics and surgery, Teen girls would feel better about themselves and not whore themselves out for Gucci and Prada. Pedo makes our economy go round currently and thats wrong, anime is the least of our concerns if we want to examine the pedophilia obsession in the west. Also to outlaw it would be the start of laws intruding into free thought and speech, those terms are thrown around a lot, but they still need our protection.

.... True pedophiles wouldn't harm a kid. only psychos do that.

I'm gonna tell you my thoughts about it. I am offended that Lolicon is getting a ban. but To the people out there who says die pedos. I don't hate you. I am slightly irritated is all. I can understand your feelings and I have these feelings too. What if I where to tell you what Lolicon was all about? to put it bluntly it is the big brother in all of us. the need to protect the ones weaker than us. and somehow along the way some people got in love with that feeling and the persons behind the feeling. Many can relate to this. or at least some can the true ones. I see both cons and pros of the situation. the thing I see is. overprotection. the media is overprotecting the young. not only by laws but also by censoring. censoring. the loss of freedom of speech isn't that a giant loss for the youth today? and IRL relationships between adult and kids can occur without it being rape. If two people love each other shouldn't they have the right to be with that person even if the age is different? and as some have already said if lolicon is bad how about murder shouldn't we ban murder and other illegal or dangerous stuff. like weapons. like a saying once told me. We kill people who kill people to show people that killing is bad.... That is USA in a nutshell. fine prove me wrong IDC I don't Care.

It would be challenged in court and shot down immediately.

Real child porn is illegal. You know why? It's because a real kid is hurt in production of the image.
Real murder is illegal. Because you're taking a life. It's why if you make a snuff film you will be sent to prison.

Could we ban every Hollywood movie where a serial killer goes on a rampage? I'm willing to bet most people would say no. It's because no one is hurt in real life. Could it give inspiration to real life mentally ill people to go on a murder spree? Sure it could. Just like lolicon could give inspiration to sick pedos.

Now of course, as an American this has no immediate bearing on my country, but that doesn't mean it can't have an affect. Something banning loli/shotacon, particularly in the country that generates most of it, could set a precedent for all other countries. But that is of course just the start of things. It also potentially sets a dangerous precedent for the general freedom of mankind.

I think the, "It's just a drawing," argument actually holds up pretty well (as long as the drawing has no basis in reality), and is a decent argument in support of not just keeping loli/shota from being banned, but in favor of getting it actually legalized. While the subject matter might not be popular, that doesn't make it inherently evil. While a child rapist might have looked at or possessed this material, that doesn't make all consumers of it child rapists.

Comparisons to other types of media can be very useful too. You might say that loli/shota material encourages people to rape children. But if that is true, then why does a movie or image depicting a child being shot not encourage more of the same? Or a news story about a person brutally attacking their child not cause you to do the same to your children?

The difference is simple. One involves thought, while another involves both intent and action. You might think about having sex with the cute girl working the tables at your local bar, but you don't go through with it because you are married. Just because you are married, doesn't mean you stop having these desires. Or a driver cuts you off on the freeway and you wish you could blow out their tires or even their brains. Now, even if you did have a weapon in the car at the time, your average person would just leave it as a thought.

See, thoughts of unpopular actions actually can serve a purpose. In the last example, they act as a way for this person to burn off their anger, by imagining a way to get revenge. They don't actually need to go through with the act to get the affect, nor given the choice would they generally wish to make it a reality. This goes back full circle to the argument against drawings of kids in a sexual context. Just because a person looks at such a thing, doesn't mean that person desires to have sex with a real child. And for the people that do, that doesn't imply that they would actually force a child to have sex against their will.

By banning one thing, in effect making this a thought crime, you open the door for even harsher laws. Maybe one day people will say we can't show or print anything that describes or shows murder, because it might lead to a viewer of the material killing someone. If that happened, say goodbye to harder stuff such as the Saw movies. But it would also mean goodbye to James Bond and the Terminator. Since attempted murder could be construed as being equally risky, you would also say goodbye to previously harmless things such as most Loony Toons cartoons. It would also eliminate a lot of literary works, including the Bible, and entail nearly wholesale decimation of many genres of books such as sci-fi, mystery, horror, fantasy and so on.

But that is just the beginning. Maybe sex should be banned from being viewed as well, because it might get in the hands of a child, or might diminish the self worth of an adult. Goodbye romance novels, among other things. Now add to that bans on any speech that might be considered harmful to another's psyche. You couldn't say a person was lazy for instance, at least to their face, because it might harm their feelings.

All of this is an extreme, and society could go as far as locking down what you are allowed to say, or maybe only a stage or two in before stopping. It might not hit any of the stages, or might take one step in and two steps back out. It's all just an example of how blocking generally harmless things can lead to a totally restrictive society, if allowed to happen just to protect people from "possibilities" that aren't even proven to be true.

You may say, if it saves even one child from being raped, it is worth it. But then what about murder on TV? If it saves even one life, is it worth banning the showing of it? If banning pornography keeps just one girl from feeling worthless because she isn't super pretty worth it? Would glossing over, or even completely banning, most of the parts of the Bible and other holy books, the history books of the world, and other such recordings of human history be worth it so a child doesn't have to grow up hearing about violence and murder? If you say yes to one, but not to another, how come? How is one any different from the other? And if you say yes to all of that and more, what are you left with?

And to add in to this, is an understanding of why people look at such material. In the case of lolicon and shotacon, there can be a variety of reasons. Some of the viewers are actual children, who for one reason or another were exposed to porn at an early age, and who can identify better with a kid than an adult. They may have decided to search for images of their favorite characters. And before you say otherwise, that kid could easily be searching for porn of said characters willingly, and without their parents even realizing that their kid has ever looked at porn. As they age, they may keep a special place in their hearts for these characters, and others like them, even in pornographic situations. That doesn't mean they can't enjoy adults, though; the two options aren't mutually exclusive.

Next you have the people who were sexually stunted in their development. This could occur for a variety of reasons. Maybe they were just born that way. Maybe they got started on drugs and it messed them up, or their mom was on drugs while pregnant. Maybe they were raped as a child, and their sexual maturity ceased to develop further.

You also have the kids who experimented with other kids sexually. Even as they age, those memories will stay with them. Most likely those will be memories of happiness, closeness and comfort. Therefore, they may look at drawings of fictional kids having sex to relive those memories, memories of a simpler and probably happier time. They may also like how cute the characters look. And that is a key word, "cute." Most adult women/men would be considered pretty/handsome, but cute in the "totally innocent, happy, and untainted by the world" way? I doubt it. While a drawing of a child usually contains such qualities, which could be a nice reprieve from the real world, most "normal" porn doesn't.

So are all of these people evil because of this? Not one bit, if looked at logically and with detachment from your own person views, which is how the law is supposed to work anyways.

Now while you might not be able to relate with that type of thing, how about this: When you watch a movie, such as a James Bond movie, do you get the desire to grab a gun and go killing the "bad guys," or do you sit back and enjoy the spy fantasy without feeling like blowing up somebody's HQ while speeding out at just the last second? Now, if you actually do get a desire like that, odds are you are mentally unbalanced to begin with. If you actually go out and try it, you would appear to have trouble separating fantasy from reality, and odds are if that didn't set you off, something else eventually would have.

Now what do you think goes through the mind of a man or woman pleasuring themselves to drawings of fictional boys or girls having sex? As long as they aren't mentally "off" from the start, the odds are good that they enjoy a nice session with their hand and then don't even think of that kind of material until the next time they feel like playing with their body. And even then, they might think about and look at that material only a fraction of their total self pleasure sessions. The others might be spent looking at more "traditional" porn. So how menacing does that really sound? It sounds about as menacing as a family watching James Bond shoot a guy in the chest, which isn't really all that menacing to most people.

The media likes to spin up a story to make it sound more X than it really is (X being anything from urgency to happiness to importance). That is one of the problems of course. Laws such as this only act to limit freedom, give false security to citizens, and do nothing to actually protect those it says it is protecting. They also unfairly ruin the lives of people who are causing no harm to anyone.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

I feel that I may have begun to run off track with my original goals, so I shall end it here. Besides, it is probably getting too long anyways. But before I go, a quote, because we must always protect the children.

As one very successful world leader put it:

The State must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.

Those are the words of Adolf Hitler.

Fahrenheit 451 is slowly but surely coming true!! outlawing freedom of speech over a drawing that depicts something imaginary will be a stepping stone for all our freedoms to go by the way side. when will it end, when society starts taking drugs to control there mind and make them robots (like equilibrium "movie") when the government bans creativity every one who was against things like this might have seemed small today will have huge reprocussions in the future. our very freedom is at stake it isnt just a drawing of a preteenaged girl its freedom of expression (however so morally wrong to much of society) still is not real and unharmful. this is not a modern thing any way drawings depicting "lolicon" have been around since before the dawn of time and the foundation of anicent egypt. either way there is no god!! while jesus was in palestine getting crucified did the incans or chinese or japanese even know anything about christianity!!!! hell no!!! all religions are created as a form of control and a way out of there sorry lives filled with brutal fighting in wars and plagues that killed millions, it was a way to vent and the rich to get richer. religion is a lie. jesus never rose from the dead not did he heal the weak. they are myths just like everyone stopped believing in zeus, athena, hercules!! its all fraudulent!! fraud thats lasted thousands of years. did the bible explain the existance of dinosaurs, asteroid impact zones, mars, or the stars. no logic, just lies!!!!

BRASIL E PORTUGAL VIRAM PROBLEM??ES DE P??RNOS GLBT COMO PEDOFILAS LUSAS E PALESTINAS(ISL??MICAS RADICAIS,HAMAS)SEM-TAMANHOS.
QUE INVENTOU DE PEDOFILIAS?
-FORAM TARADOS PELAS PALESTINA,ISL??MICAS RADICAIS,PORTUGAL,GLBT,HAMAS,BRIGADA DE AI-AQSA E TALIB??.
OS GAYS PORTUGUESES E BRASILEIROS S??O VICIADOS DE TURMAS DA M??NICA(ALVOS PREFERIDOS DE CEBOLINHA,CASC??O,CHICO BENTO,LOUCA,VIL??ES E OUTROS'ATINGEM DE M??NICA,MAGI,CASQUINHA E VERSAS'),MAS EST??O MIRAR DE MENINO MALIQUINHO,PICA PAU AMARELO,RA-RE-BUM E OUTROS PERIGOSOS.
OS OT??RIOS GAYS TENHAM SITES GAYS,PARECIDOS DE P??RNOS GAYS PERIGOSAS QUE ENTRA DE PEDOFILIAS EM GLBT:

BRASIL
-TROCA-TROCA
-DISPONIVEL
-GALAXIA GAY
-GULA GAY
-PRIDE GAY
-MIX BRASIL
-CLUBE GLS
-MGM
-GAY BRAZIL
-ACAPA
-GLX

PORTUGAL
-OPUS GAY
-PORTUGAL GAY
-JOVEM GAY
-ILGA-PORTUGAL
-ALGARVEGAY

AS COMUNIDADES E POLICIAS ALERTAM QUE PORTUGAL E PALESTINA CAIRAM DESGRA??A DE GLBT E ISL??MICAS RADICAIS PELOS PEDOFILIAS.

BRAZIL AND PORTUGAL VIRAM PROBLEM??ES OF P??RNOS GLBT PEDOHPILES LUSAS AND HOW PALESTINAS (ISL??MICAS RADICAIS, HAMAS) SEM-SIZES.
INVENTOU THAT OF PEDOHPILES?
-TARADOS WERE THE PALESTINE, ISL??MICAS RADICAIS, PORTUGAL, GLBT, HAMAS, AI-AQSA BRIGADE IN AND TALIB??.
THE GAYS PORTUGUESE AND BRAZILIAN VICIADOS ARE IN THE TURMAS M??NICA (TARGETS OF FAVOURITE CEBOLINHA, CASC??O, CHICO Bento, LOUCA, VIL??ES And OUTROS'ATINGEM OF M??NICA, MAGI, CASQUINHA And VERSAS '), BUT IS FOR BOY MIRAR MALIQUINHO, PICA PAU YELLOW , RA-RE-BUM AND OTHER DANGEROUS.
THE OT??RIOS GAYS HAVE WEB SITES GAYS, PARECIDOS OF DANGEROUS P??RNOS GAYS IN THAT ENTERS INTO PEDOHPILES GLBT:

BRAZIL
-TROCA-TROCA
-DISPONIVEL
-GALAXIA GAY
-GULA GAY
-PRIDE GAY
-MIX BRASIL
-CLUBE GLS
-MGM
-GAY BRAZIL
-ACAPA
-GLX

PORTUGAL
-OPUS GAY
-PORTUGAL GAY
-JOVEM GAY
-ILGA-PORTUGAL
-ALGARVEGAY

THE COMMUNITIES AND POLICIAS ALERTAM THAT PORTUGAL AND PALESTINE CAIRAM DESGRA??A OF GLBT AND ISL??MICAS RADICAIS BY PEDOHPILES.

What ever... Ban or not ban all I care is they don't stop making cute shoujo anime/manga. Anime like the Nanoha series, Aishiteruze Baby, some clamp works, and a whole lot more. Magical girls, romance stories, school life, unrequttied love life and others that might contain little girls in it doesn't get banned then I'm fine.

Firstly, I am not actually a viewer of lolicon (or anime for that matter), but nevertheless this discussion fascinates me and I have a passionate opinion on the issue. I agree with all of the arguments in favour of not banning lolicon that state the defence of fantasy, art, freedom of choice, freedom against censorship, absurdity of an absolute moral standard, impossibility of determining age (or in fact whetehr the subject is human) etc.
All of these arguments have been done to death and anyone who doesn't agree with them is simply thinking illogically and irrationally.
However, the one strong point of contention from the side in opposition to lolicon has been the question of whether it leads to child abuse or not. Neither side has produced much evidence (logical or empirical) in this respect. I would be tempted then to say, that with regard to the other logically accepted arguments given above, that on the innocent until proven guilty principle lolicon should not be banned. However some people argue that if even one child would be hurt as a result of having lolicon they would advocate banning it. While I do not necessarily agree with that position (yes I know that sounds harsh), I can totally understand it and empathise with the people expounding it. Therefore I think it is relevant that I explore the issue through rigorous logic (as I have no empirical evidence).
Pedophilia is a form of sexual desire/interest/pervession/expression just like homosexuality, BDSM, etc etc right through to a foot fetish, fellatio, or just 'normal' (whatever that is) heterosexual intercourse.
There are only really two possibilities in respect to why someone possesses a particular desire, such as pedophilia. Either it is inate (ie. possibly part of their genetic makeup, biology, formative childhood experiences) and can not be helped, or it is a choice based thing which can be helped (which is a more left-field way of looking at it, but the view that I favour).
If the first case is true, then lolicon would not make anyone a sexual offender, because they already have the sexual desire inside of them - even if looking at lolicon did not satisfy their desires, it could not possibly lead them to abuse, since their desire already existed. They may or may not choose to act on this desire, but lolicon could not change their decision - it is just a picture of what is already in their minds.
If the second case is true, then looking at lolicon might teach someone the idea of pedophilia if they had not considered it previously. But if desire is a choice based thing, then they would still have to make the decision to have the pedophilic desire, and furthermore, they would have to make another decision to have the desire to abuse real people. But this involves making free imaginative decisions about sexual desire, and hence becuase they are making a free choice, they would've been able to make one before ever viewing lolicon. Eitherway, it is not possible for lolicon to cause someone to abuse a child.

ban lolicon?
ban those stupid images of these anorexic and bulimic girls too...no one wants to see some fucking freak throwing up their food.
and why the fuck should lolicon be illegal? it's a CARTOON! if those motherfuckers want to put more people in jail over some dumbass cartoon, then so be it. their idiots that's all i can say.
find those motherfuckers that's obsessed with real child porn. then talk to me...

And if it's such a problem, why the fuck didn't it get banned when it was first created dumbasses

I have seen both sides of the coin, and from what I can say is as follows.

Images of the handrawn nature should not be banned, as they are within freedom of speech/freedom of expression. Also they are not the "real" thing.

Images of the camera format, should be banned as it was a real event that took place and was filmed. Being an ex-hacker, I know well enough how many pedo-fucks are out there, (and let me tell you, I fried every one I came across *viruses* *this is not virused in any way by me --- my disclaimer*) I believe that real instances of child abuse should not be allowd to be shown, however I know the human race as a whole won't let some things die. As for the person way up there, that was complaining about the protections society has given children, it is rather absurd.

Parents reading this - keep your child informed about things to beware of. *side note* AND FOR GODS SAKE DISCAPLNE THEM AS YOUR PARENTS DID YOU!

((Mine prefereed the whole "cut your own switch" and look how those that parents like myown turned out. Productive strong willed individuals of society... pushing the laws to stop their own agendas.

There are 900 year old Sorceress with split personality disorder. Aside from that the game they are depicted in, in that photo is a doujin(amateur) fighting game names Melty Blood(Japan's #1 Arcade Game at the moment), based off TYPE-MOON's hit Text based porn game Tsukihime(Moon Princess) for PC. In the game, which I own, there is no depiction of either character in sexual acts. I hate when web-sites drown in their ignorance.

im 13 and i just want to look at something thats around my own age so yea

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its a cool place to post. no captcha and no crazy people who can post under your name. you get your own pics and you can upload pics to show everyone. and you can have Emoticons ( smiley faces) So just sign up! all you need is a name, password, and email address and your set! its easy people! Try it its awsome!

Lolicon obviously FICTION, child porn is REAL, focus on banning child porn and leave lolicon alone. There are worse things out there than CARTOONS which are NOT intended to depict real events or people( in most cases).

I'm sure all robbers and terrorists don't watch violent movies nor lolicon. Not even that V-tech guy and all those that shoot civilians at school.

What do you think the guy who is drawing it, is thinking? The more real he draws them, he more he must rely on real models. The human anatomy is very different throughout life. From 10-19 is very different. And the readers only get their rocks off the more it is real. Simpsons getting it on is alot different to any ComicLO. So I think for some people, one thing could lead to another. Its like a drug. You start off with a joint then MAYBE someday you might to try coke. It also depends alot on your environment.
Therefore it is a 'complex'. Banning it outright does have its negative impacts. By restricting it to 13 or below, they are already giving great leniencies. Times are also changing. 14 year olds nowadays behave much different than 14 year olds 30 years ago. Obviously technology changes alot of things. Freedom of expression is great but some of the stuff I see are just nasty. Its not free expression at all but rather repressed expression.

You pedophiles need new material..really, but I'll humor you and easily shut down the most over used defence for loli out there

The FANTASY is preteen children being manipulated, molested, and RAPED by most of the time much older men...yes it it a drawing..well, porno really

The REALITY is you dorks are masturbating to depictions, and fantasies of preteen children being manipulated, molested, and RAPED by most of the time much older men....CHILDREN...you still don't get it huh?
Now really rapist..honestly tell me how that DOESN'T make you 30 yr olds in your parents basement pedophiles??? really? I mean logically it's open and shut.

Bisna
P.S. just so we skip the next back and forth I'll cover another over used defence for loli

EXCUSE:((30yr old dork in parents basement)):It's art..you can't censor art man..it's unconstitutional..waaahhhhhh

SHUTDOWN:((ANY logicall person who doesn't want to molest small children)):So when you're masturbating it's "porn" or "hentai", and when you need to defend it, it's "ART"...not the smartest bunch..are they;)
I wonder what wouldv'e happened to Da Vinchi or Monet had they painted a small chld engaged in intercourse screaming...hmmm I wonder

Bisna

I for one am an artist. And if I draw a character that is attractive and is a 4 foot girl or guy for that matter. How are you to know that it was a kid for peat sakes.
these laws are getting more controlling on the fact of why we came here, and it is bullshit that a sexaffender use this meterail to get off.\
You general fucked up psychiatrist will brain wash them into thinking that they killed kids over porn images. whats next. no porno. then what a seal of a chip that controls my body. Go to hell you fuck up mothers on drugs. you were the ones that should be in there with them.you demented fucks.
I for one think that if you are going to fuck a kid and kill them. then yah your mind is fucked up because someone abused you sexually or mentaly.

all this crap about how people are going to have to say that la blue girl will be out of the picture. Because that is a highschool girl fucking everything.

You think that some killer is going to get off on a epsidoe of la blue girl and go raping and killing kids. bullshit. It takes years of mental preperation to be were that persons at. It just dose not happen overnight.

Want to have them band everything you know and love. Do you want psychos like those who can't expcept the fact that a school girl is what we fucked after prom.

You want to band lolicon. Band American Pie and so on forth you asswholes.

I'd hsve to say this is american life baby.
You want to know why people go and kill. It is because News and Cops and so on forth of you all mother fuckers. Yes I said it. So go to hell you asswholes.

Well america is a scared child with a nuke.

www.deathnoteforum13.zforum.biz

Its an Awsome forum site. They got music and everything and even a chat box to chat right away!! its awsome! Dude they need members so it think someone should check it out. Just register its easy!! its better than Comi trust me.

And yeah that law is gay. I am an aspiring anime artist myself and...well..this law can go suck it. seriously.

Includeing Lolicon,Furry,yuri,CG,ect And Never once Have i Wanted To Rape A Actual Child I In Fact Want To Kill Child Rapist Fuck The Law The Cant Stop The Internet And Delete All The Lolicon Out There

BAN myspace because those stupid little hores are making me horny !!! lol and youtube .....lolicon don't make pervs YOUTUBE little bitches do just type in any stupid rap / hip songs and ull have a lot of preteen to teen age girls dancing like WHORES !!!! jajjaja
this tread is stupid the world is stupid all off you ares stupid social life is stupid !!! want a perfect world DIE ! and ull have ur perfect world

UNICEF why you did this to the lolicon fans?
Women interested on Shota. Loli is Shojo.
Shota is Shonen. Japanese Porn is rising.
X-Rated Live-Action Movies is nothing without animation.
Hentai beats Live-Action. Guro vs Eroge.
Hentai without Lolicon is like Yaoi without Shotacon and Yuri without Lolicon. Straight Shotacon without Ecchi is like No Fanservice and Censorship. Too much Edited Content making like a Kodomo anime just like America's G-Rated Cartoon. Now that's terrible. No More Lolicon is no more Hentai. Disney got nothing for Hayao Mizaki anymore. Who's that Pokemon? Boring. And "Believe It" from NARUTO C'MON! Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!
Last but not least Still Hate 4kids Great! And Cartoon Network minus Toonami. DISNEY XD sucks. Lolicon will rise again.

Lolicon is for perverts who just wanna jagg off all day and can't get any ass. XD

that goes for anybody else who watches any type of porn regardless if its animated or not. Get a real girl. LOSERS XD

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/lolicon-protection-act-of-2008

do you all realize that japan, with it's openmindedness towards sexuality has the lowest rates of rape there is? Do you realize that is has some of the lowest levels of violent crime? Do you realize in general, japan is one of the safest places to live in the entire world?

Do you recognize that America, with its arbitrary belief that there is something inherently dirty or harmful in sex has one of the highest rates of rape, and violent crime?

And yet still, some of you have the audacity to say that it is japanese attitudes that are sick because they look at 2 dimensional pictures of naked bodies? It's America that has a diseased attitude towards sex and that is testified to by their atrocious crime rates.

Also, do you know why you believe sexuality, or sexual arousal at anything is wrong? Can you actually quantify why you believe it's harmful? Of course you can't... you only believe that because that's what you were taught growing up. Just like the muslim believes americans are immoral for not wearing burkas and so he's going to blow you up for it. You are just the same, and you have about as much logic behind your beliefs as those people. If a culture can convince a person to go blow himself up to stop the american infidels, than a culture can convince a person to hate sex for equally imaginary reasons.

The reason Japan is so openminded towards sexuality is because it lacks the judao/christian foundation from which anti-sex attitudes and attitudes that negatively portray the body arise. In other words, they just lived life and relied on cause and effect to determine their laws towards sexuality. If you were born there, you probably wouldn't have much of a problem with it, because you weren't doctrinized into the belief that sex is a negative and harmful element of life.

Also behold. I hereby declare this to be the vagina of a 8 year old girl having sex with an adult male ---> (_)(_)===D (|)

OH NO!! I've technically made virtual child pornography! Arrest me officer!!!

Do you all realize that japan, with it's openmindedness towards sexuality has the lowest rates of rape and sexual violence there is? Do you realize that is has some of the lowest levels of all violent crime? Do you realize in general, japan is one of the safest places to live in the entire world?

Do you recognize that America, with its arbitrary belief that there is something inherently dirty or harmful in sex has one of the highest rates of rape, and violent crime? And yet still, some of you have the audacity to say that it is japanese attitudes that are sick because they look at 2 dimensional pictures of naked bodies? It's America that has a diseased attitude towards sex and that is testified to by their atrocious crime rates.

Cause and effect tells us america has the problem, not japan!

Also, do you know why you believe sexuality, or sexual arousal at anything is wrong? Can you actually quantify why you believe it's harmful? Of course you can't... you only believe that because that's what you were taught growing up. Just like the muslim believes americans are immoral for not wearing burkas and so he's going to blow you up for it. You are just the same, and you have about as much logic behind your beliefs as those people. If a culture can convince a person to go blow himself up to stop the american infidels, than a culture can convince a person to hate sex for equally imaginary reasons.

Japan lacks the judao/christian foundation from which anti-sex and hostility towards the human body arise, so they are much more comfortable with this sort of material. In other words, they just lived life and relied on cause and effect to determine their laws towards sexuality. If you were born there, you probably wouldn't have much of a problem with it, because you weren't doctrinized into the belief that sex is a negative and harmful element of life. It's the catholics and the puritains who brought at all 'sex is bad mmmk' nonesense, so if you're not religious, what is the basis for your attitude that nudity and sexual thoughts/arousal is bad?

Does it incite crime? No! Japans crime rate statistcs testify to the opposite. If anything japans open mindedness towards pornography is the reason there is so little sexual violence there.

Also behold. I hereby declare this to be the vagina of a 8 year old girl having sex with an adult male ---> (_)(_)===D (|)

OH NO!! I've technically made virtual child pornography! Arrest me officer!!!"

dumbasses...what a person watches does not mean that they will always do pervertad things.thinking some thing doesnt hurt anything its when people make a contious desision to act on impulse and do something illegal instead of controling their desires and thinking rationally. watching lolicon characters that arent even real people is one thing but as long as you are able to keep your impulses under control life will continue as normal. and lolicon is not illegal in the us as long as you are over 18...technically there isnt even a law that spesifically designates lolicon because its drawn cartoon/anime/manga not live people.

Banning Lolicon is Like Banning the Whole Internet that means
its IMPOSSIBLE that will never happen.